Hi Seeking and welcome!
I don't know the whys and wherefores of the window thing. Different people have different ideas about it.
~Merry
Merry Magdalene
JoinedPosts by Merry Magdalene
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The Day all Jehovah`s Witness`s are put into Concentration Camps!
by OUTLAW inwhen i was a kid,kingdom halls still had windows.thats a while ago..as a kid i was told in the last days,jehovah`s witness`s would be rounded up and be put into concentration camps..i was told,when the government came to take me away and seperate me from my parents,i should wear my warmest coat and boots.as i would have to fend for myself in the concentration camp..i was told never to give up my faith.even if they tied my parents to a stake and was foced to light the fire that would burn them alive.....jehovah`s witness`s are the "happiest people on earth!
".....do you have any happy memorys like mine?...outlaw
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59
The Day all Jehovah`s Witness`s are put into Concentration Camps!
by OUTLAW inwhen i was a kid,kingdom halls still had windows.thats a while ago..as a kid i was told in the last days,jehovah`s witness`s would be rounded up and be put into concentration camps..i was told,when the government came to take me away and seperate me from my parents,i should wear my warmest coat and boots.as i would have to fend for myself in the concentration camp..i was told never to give up my faith.even if they tied my parents to a stake and was foced to light the fire that would burn them alive.....jehovah`s witness`s are the "happiest people on earth!
".....do you have any happy memorys like mine?...outlaw
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Merry Magdalene
Oh, and I also remember when our KH had windows, and I remember when they remodeled and boarded them up.
Fun times, eh?
~Merry
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59
The Day all Jehovah`s Witness`s are put into Concentration Camps!
by OUTLAW inwhen i was a kid,kingdom halls still had windows.thats a while ago..as a kid i was told in the last days,jehovah`s witness`s would be rounded up and be put into concentration camps..i was told,when the government came to take me away and seperate me from my parents,i should wear my warmest coat and boots.as i would have to fend for myself in the concentration camp..i was told never to give up my faith.even if they tied my parents to a stake and was foced to light the fire that would burn them alive.....jehovah`s witness`s are the "happiest people on earth!
".....do you have any happy memorys like mine?...outlaw
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Merry Magdalene
Yup. Many of my childhood games, at one point, centered around my being in a concentration camp and being tortured but remaining true to "my" faith no matter what. I kept a pitiful little survival kit (which I had assembled myself) under my bed and I often had nightmares about Armageddon.
~Merry
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Merry Magdalene
There are eye-witnesses to German atrocities, including reports from liberating soldiers from several nations. Holocaust denial is downright stupid, although the ends being pursued on the back of the holocaust are also a little dubious.
Although the testimonies of eyewitnesses in any situation often differ and can contain inaccuracies, I would certainly not question Nazi atrocities on the whole by any means! It happened. My 8th grade math and social studies teacher lost his toes to frostbite in a concentration camp. The father of one of my ex-boyfriends was one of the first American soldiers through the gates of one of the concentration camps when it was liberated. There does seem to be a difference, however, that has gotten lost in the shuffle, between Jewish Holocaust deniers and revisionists. I would agree that denial is stupid, but what Gill said about it not being banned surely makes a good point as well.
"[A] little dubious"? That surely must be an understatement. "[T]he ends being pursued on the back of the holocaust" appear to be the reason Jewish Holocaust questioning and denial are taking place in the Middle East. It is not necessarily anti-Semiticism but anti-Zionism, which we are supposed to think is the same thing but is not (although the two may exist together in some people). I think it is a mistake on their part to go down that road and a distraction from the actual legitamacy of the issue of the current atrocities commited against Palestinians, but it is certainly understandable, to my mind. Zionists used the Jewish Holocaust to bolster their claim to Palestine where they would establish a Jewish state that would be a safe haven for all Jews. Propaganda described this as a land without a people for a people without a land, completely overlooking and continually denying that there were already people there who had a right to stay there. And anyone who questions or disagrees with what they say and do is quickly labelled an anti-Semite (like President Carter), with all the nastiness that such a label implies.
Israel is a warzone of terror. Israelis and Palestinians literally hate and detest one another. They treat each other like dogs. Neither side are pure in this. The Israelis have the guns and aren't afraid to use them, but the Palestinians continue to provoke them. Neither side is innocent.
Israel is far less a war zone than the occupied territories, it seems to me. Or are you including the occupied territories as part of Israel? It also seems to me that Israelis are faced with far less "terror" than are Palestinians, some of who live in exile (longing for their demolished homes, farms, schools, and mosques and churches), others who live under occupation (have you read what that is like?!), or who live in refugee camps (have you read what that is like?!) If Israelis hate Palestinians wouldn't it be fair to say that this is because Palestinians refused to just shut up and go away, they insisted on fighting for their rights. I don't believe they have always hated and detested each other as I have read too many accounts to the contrary, but surely any mutual hatred is due to the establishment of Israel on Palestinian land and the consequences of that.
How do Palestinians treat Israelis like dogs? How are they in any position to do so? You will have to inform me. I already know how the Israeli government treats Palestinians, having the advantage, as you say. (And, as far as I have been able to discern, Israel does not treat Arab Israelis as equals in their so-called democracy, as some have claimed.)
Should the Israelis be the "bigger" people, since they have the advantage? That's an interesting moral debate in a culture that is at wide variance to the one we're familiar with. To even begin the debate you'd need to be able to get into the minds of the Middle-Eastern people. I know that, for one, I can't. I've observed first-hand a variety of cultures on three continents (Africa, Europe and North America), and studied many others, and know enough to ascertain the fact that people can be wired completely differently. That still doesn't permit me to properly understand their perspectives, though. I'd have to be terribly naive to think I could, as I've simply not walked in their shoes from birth.
I think you are mistaken in thinking "we need to be able to get into the minds of the Middle-Eastern people" in order to debate the morality of the situation and who should do what. Oppression, genocide, ethnic cleansing, lying, and suicide bombing are always wrong, no matter who is doing it to whom.
Please read One Country: A Bold Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse by Ali Abunimah if you have the chance. It is a very worthwhile read imo.
Merry:I tend to be leary of any excerpts, be it a single sentence or a couple of phrases. They need to be placed in the context of the entire speech and take account of the audience and tone used. That then needs to be placed into the wider context of the political attitudes of the speaker.
In this case the "intent" was clear, albeit it has also been "spun" up in the war of words. Neither side is ignorant of the game they play. A very deadly game that involves peoples' lives.
There's blood-letting taking place on both sides of this debate. Neither side can be trusted to be giving the full story, hence I wouldn't tend to defend either. "All is fair in love and war", and politics uses this as a theme-tune!
I too am leary of exerpts. That is why I decided to search for the context of that particular quote. (Within the article I linked to there are other links for even more context.) I hear that same phrase about Iran wanting and planning to wipe Israel off the map repeated over and over and over in the news, and I felt a need to research it (the same need that lead me to disbelieve JW propaganda). If you have a good case to make against someone (as the US and Israel claim to have against Iran and, before that, Iraq) then surely lying, deception and distortion are not the way to go in order to make that case.
And that is my concern--this "very deadly game that involves peoples' lives." I hope it concerns all of us and motivates us to uncover and piece together more and more of the reality, and (im)morality of what is transpiring.
~Merry
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Merry Magdalene
Did anyone read the whole article? Having found it quite interesting, I provided a link. Here are a few more quotes then:
As Iran's U.N. Press Officer, M.A. Mohammadi, complained to The Washington Post in a June 2006 letter:
It is not amazing at all, the pick-and-choose approach of highlighting the misinterpreted remarks of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in October and ignoring this month's remarks by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that "We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state."
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"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom," Ahmadinejad said at Tuesday's meeting with the conference participants in his offices, according to Iran's official news agency, IRNA.
He said elections should be held among "Jews, Christians and Muslims so the population of Palestine can select their government and destiny for themselves in a democratic manner."
Once again, the first sentence above was wholly plagiarized from the AP article. The second sentence was also the same, except "He called for elections" became "He said elections should be held..."
It gets more interesting.
The quote used in the original AP article and copied in The Jerusalem Post article supposedly derives from the IRNA. If true, this can easily be checked. Care to find out? Go to:
There you will discover the actual IRNA quote was:
"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated."
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In the IRNA's actual report, the Zionist regime will vanish just as the Soviet Union disappeared. Vanish. Disappear. In the dishonest AP version, the Zionist regime will be "wiped out." And how will it be wiped out? "The same way the Soviet Union was." Rather than imply a military threat or escalation in rhetoric, this reference to Russia actually validates the intended meaning of Ahmadinejad's previous misinterpreted anti-Zionist statements. What has just been demonstrated is irrefutable proof of media manipulation and propaganda in action. The AP deliberately alters an IRNA quote to sound more threatening. The Israeli media not only repeats the fake quote but also steals the original authors' words. The unsuspecting public reads this, forms an opinion and supports unnecessary wars of aggression, presented as self defense, based on the misinformation.
This scenario mirrors the kind of false claims that led to the illegal U.S. invasion of Iraq, a war now widely viewed as a catastrophic mistake. And yet the Bush administration and the compliant corporate media continue to marinate in propaganda and speculation about attacking Iraq's much larger and more formidable neighbor, Iran. Most of this rests on the unproven assumption that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and the lie that Iran has vowed to physically destroy Israel. Given its scope and potentially disastrous outcome, all this amounts to what is arguably the rumor of the century.
Iran 's President has written two rather philosophical letters to America. In his first letter, he pointed out that "History shows us that oppressive and cruel governments do not survive". With this statement, Ahmadinejad has also projected the outcome of his own backwards regime, which will likewise "vanish from the page of time."
That said, I don't trust any world leaders, their words, or their intentions any farther than I could throw them. But I ask again--what about what Israel is not just threatening but actually doing (and has been doing for generations) to a people who, according to some, don't even exist?! Is it not the least bit disturbing to anyone?
~Merry
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Merry Magdalene
I hope you won't think I am defending someone I don't even know, as I have an innate distrust of all politicians and world leaders, but as to
He has already publically stated that his goal is to destroy Israel. I think that needs to be taken seriously.
here is an interesting article: http://democracyrising.us/content/view/736/164/
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "Regime", pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).
So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh", is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's President threatened to "wipe Israel off the map", despite never having uttered the words "map", "wipe out" or even "Israel."
THE PROOF:
The full quote translated directly to English:
"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."
Word by word translation:
Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).
Something that needs to be taken just as seriously, if not more so, is what Israel is actually both doing and threatening to do right now.
~Merry
Forgot to add this link, which is more on-topic-- http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=39538
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More WTBCS camel dung - Help LEO!!
by hamsterbait inaccording to the wtbcs the camels that carried rebekkah to isaac represent the witchtower litterature.. one problem: the camel had not yet been domesticated at the time the story is supposed to have happened.. as well as being an amalgam of more than one story, it tells of abraham putting together a caravan of camels.. the society obviously knows this about camels, as its most recent pictures of abraham show asses being used as freight beasts.
they are happy to perpetuate a deceit.. one more thing- they obviously have not been shown by god what the camel sh1t represents.. hb.
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Merry Magdalene
Found this, but don't know if it is accurate or not-- http://www.bga.nl/en/articles/camel.html
Their interpretation of scripture is another matter
~Merry
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Bipartisan Political Bumper Sticker
by Outaservice inthis can be used by both parties................. .
"run hillary run".
republicans put this on the front of their car, and democrats put it on the rear!.
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Merry Magdalene
*chuckle*
~Merry
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Merry Magdalene
What amazes me is that there are so many...and the perpetrators think it's ok and that they can get away with it...and, more amazing, usually do for far too long
~Merry
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Merry Magdalene
Which holocaust?
I think denial of any and all holocausts, past or present, is serious. I also think denying people the right of open questioning and debate as to the specifics of any and all holocausts is serious. Neither is harmless.
~Merry